Sally Longford - Setting up a Nottingham Climate Assembly
Interview with Sally Longford, written by Andy Barrett
Sally studied Geography as a mature student, becoming a committed environmentalist and then a Geography teacher.
A member of the Labour party for many years, she was asked to stand in the local elections in 2011 and was elected as a Nottingham City Councillor.
Eventually she became responsible for the Environment and then Deputy Leader, retaining the environment portfolio.
It was Sally who led the decision that Nottingham declare its ambition to be the UK’s first carbon neutral city, and to achieve this by 2028. She stepped down from the council in 2023 and has since been concentrating on environmental matters through her work with the Nottingham Climate Assembly and as vice chair of the Nottingham Green Partnership.
You can find information about Nottingham City Council – who your councillor is, the decisions the council make, along with public surveys and consultations – here.
I met Sally to talk about the plans to hold a Climate Assembly in the city, and the mini- assembly process that she and others have been working on.
Nottingham seems to have a reputation for being a city that has been leading on environmental issues over many years now.
That’s absolutely right. I remember having visitors from the Keralan government who wanted to learn about our electric buses; and the city council hosts the Net Zero hub for the Midlands, which stretches from Wales across to the North Sea. There is a lot of expertise here; and when we decided that we would aim to achieve carbon neutrality by 2028 we knew this was going to be difficult and was reliant on getting Government support. It’s since become even more challenging. The decision to pull back on the pledge to electrify all vehicles had a negative impact; Covid had a negative impact because people stopped using public transport. But the ambition has made people sit up and take notice and want to be involved. Everyone is pulling in that direction.
When I first started as the environment portfolio holder, I found that meetings weren’t always as well attended as you might hope. Now, whenever people are asked to come together to talk about the challenges, you struggle to find a room big enough. There are people attending from the colleges and community gardens and transport, the environment agency, NHS trusts, companies, all sorts of different organisations. The reality of climate change is making more people understand the need to discuss the challenges we face.
Before I left the Council, I managed to persuade the Labour party to commit to a climate assembly in their manifesto. That was very important to me. But if you want an assembly and the recommendations that come from it to have any real clout then it has to be, what is called, sortitioned. This is a process whereby you assemble a genuinely representative sample of the population. Sortitioning is very important when you are dealing with issues that affect everyone, where people may have differing opinions and ideas on how to face a public challenge. The idea of a climate assembly is that it should represent all the voices of the city, to draw ideas from the most diverse range of citizens that we can.
This also means that any proposals that come out of the assembly can’t just be dismissed as the views of environmentalists, as another pressure group. I’ve heard this so many times; ‘they don’t represent the city; they’re just a bunch of green activists!’ If we run a properly sortitioned process, inviting people that represent all of its diversity and are coming at this question of climate change and carbon neutrality from a diverse range of perspectives, then the politicians have got to listen. And they will.
The sortitioning process, to get the representative sample in the room, is not easy and it’s expensive. You also need to financially support those who otherwise wouldn’t be able to participate, for example to cover caring costs and help people with transport. This means that we need to raise money for the assembly to happen; £160,000. The City Council are not in a financial position to provide that sort of money at the moment and so we’re working really hard to find the funds to make it happen. We have a Crowd Funder page and have £20,000 pledged from other donations, but we need a lot more.
South Yorkshire ran a Citizens’ Assembly on Climate, initiated by the Mayor. You can find out more about this, and read about the sortitioning process, in which one hundred people were selected from thirty thousand invitations here.
The Nottingham Green Partnership have agreed to sponsor the Assembly. This was formed in 1992 to bring together sector organisations, private companies, voluntary and charitable organisations, and others to work together to tackle the city’s environmental challenges and to minimise its environmental impact. There are around forty organisations involved now that meet quarterly, to talk about how we can achieve the 2028 carbon neutrality goal.
The organisation that are managing the overall project, who are doing most of the fundraising work, who are lobbying for money, and are spreading the word about what a climate assembly is, are the Nottingham Climate Assembly, which was formed in Nottingham in 2020. And key to this work has been the running of the climate mini-assemblies.
As their website states, ‘the organisation ‘exists to promote a democratic approach to Nottingham’s future well-being. Our aim is for everyone in the city to be involved in responding to the climate crisis we all face’.
Can you tell me what a mini-assembly is, and how it’s run?
They all vary in style and content but the idea is to get people taking about the climate and what they and their organisations or their neighbourhood can do to make a difference; as well as spreading the word about what the larger climate assembly would be and how it would work. We’ve held one with five people, one with thirty people and the rest have been somewhere in-between. What is important is that you are talking to different people with different perspectives and knowledge and experience. You are finding out what their priorities are, which also helps us understand the issues and themes that we would need to explore at a full assembly. We’ve had fourteen mini-assemblies so far, with the first one being held in September 2023 at the Green Festival.
Each one of the mini-assemblies has a focus. For instance, we had one with Nottingham University Hospitals Trust staff about how the Trust could improve its sustainability. They were keen to talk about waste, about plastic use and transport. It was only a lunch time session but the Board had agreed to listen and several practical ideas and solutions came out of that.
There were four questions that this mini-assembly focussed on:
How can the NUH Trust reduce its Carbon emissions?
How can the NUH Trust improve sustainability in service delivery?
How can the NUH Trust improve sustainability and reduce biodiversity loss in relation to buildings and assets?
How can the NHS Trust promote Green Prescribing?
We have trained facilitators that run each session and Nottingham Climate Assembly organise facilitation training for those who want to come along and help in this process. Understanding how to facilitate a meeting to make sure things move swiftly and people understand what is happening and how they can contribute is really important. Each session is carefully structured and begins with an introduction that is shaped by the level of understanding of the challenge by the group and the context of the mini-assembly.
After the introduction you get people into smallish groups and there are ground rules around how long you should speak for, making sure people aren’t interrupted as they speak, being respectful, and how to indicate if you agree or like what people are saying. It’s a simple but effective way of running a conversation. You can have each group looking at a different issue but usually the groups will be tasked with exploring the same question, which is fundamentally around reducing carbon emissions within their context and specific environment.
Each group will have around half a dozen people, with a facilitator and a note-taker, and at the end of the session the facilitator will summarize the main points that the group have come up with and ask which are the three most important of these. This is often an interesting moment as people can become quite passionate when they are having to decide what they want to share. These are passed on to the main facilitator who attempts to identify any pattern or connections between what has been shared. It’s amazing how often the same ideas do begin to emerge.
How long does a mini-assembly last?
That depends on the group. Extinction Rebellion held one where they invited lots of environmental organisations, pressure groups and lobbyists in the city to the Sumac centre in Forest Fields which lasted more or less a full day. There was a session in the morning that was addressing ideas and actions and a session in the afternoon looking at how people and groups could work together more effectively to put these into action. But most of the mini-assemblies have been shorter than that. If it’s run well, you can do a lot in an hour or two.
You can learn more about that assembly, as well as all of the others mentioned in this article here.
So where else have mini-assemblies taken place?
The city council had one to explore what they could do to continue making progress to achieve the 2028 goal whilst understanding the financial constraints. We’ve had sessions at the Green Hustle and the Green Meadows Festival which have been more open, and run as drop-in sessions.
I’ve done two in schools, one at Emmanuel which has lots of students who live in the Meadows, and one at Farnborough; both of which explored how the school community could be more sustainable. It was fascinating to see how the students were so quickly able to focus on specific issues that could be remedied and cut emissions. At Emmanuel, it was pointed out that as a faith school, they have students coming in from across the city. The buses that had brought many of these in had been cancelled during covid and never reinstated, with the result that there were many more car journeys being made. At Farnborough there was a discussion about how the canteen sells water in plastic bottles but there is only one water fountain in the main building to refill those bottles.
We had one at Nottingham College and one at Backlit, for members of the artistic community to come together and talk about how they can contribute.
Quite a few of the mini-assemblies have suggested the importance of getting the creative community involved to help communicate the challenge we are facing in ways that move beyond facts and figures and dates and targets.
There were four questions that the Nottingham College mini-assembly focussed on:
Thinking about people in your own communities, who will be most affected by climate change, why and how can they respond?'
How can educational establishments help in the fight against climate change?
Do you think AI technologies will help or hinder CN28? Consider both positives and negatives.
Can you imagine three ways or changes in behaviour that may help your community? What support may be needed to aid this?
Presumably running sessions that are so context specific, operating in their own eco-systems and structures, results in really practical ideas and strategies? Are there structures within the assemblies to move these ideas into action?
Well, that’s partly down to the group that host the session. Although we do the facilitation they organise the venue and invite the people. We feed back after the event and they pass on the recommendations that were made to whoever is in a position to take action. It’s usually management teams that will explore the recommendations that are made, so there is a clear pathway for getting things done. For example at Farnborough it was agreed that the ideas would be taken to School Council.
At Emmanuel, the recommendations went to the school management team and the Education Officer from the Green Meadows project is now in regular communication with the school. The whole purpose is to help people get things done and to work together.
There are clearly different levels of knowledge and understanding and different levels of ambition, but I think that every mini-assembly has come up with something that is useful, they have learnt from each other and they can continue the conversation elsewhere. They might not come up with ideas that directly connect to the big Nottingham 2028 policy but with something that is practical for their organisation. And if every organisation in the city came up with something that was useful and practical we’d be on a good trajectory.
So, the mini-assemblies are like the streams leading into the river that is the main climate assembly?
Yes, and hopefully we can see themes emerging that the main assembly can develop. There’s a lot that’s being discussed about transport and parks and opens spaces and waste. They’re not necessarily new; but if you can get the backing of the public when discussing these issues you can do more radical things. It gives the politicians a way in to taking action that otherwise they would be more frightened of.
Can you tell me a little more about the proposed climate assembly?
The vision is that there will be four assemblies in four different locations that will take place over four weekends, with speakers, workshops and facilitated discussions to come up with proposals and recommendations that can be put to decision makers. The themes have yet to be decided but we know that it will have to be very well run with experienced presenters and facilitators that can ensure it’s an engaging and democratic process. I’m sure that some of those that attend will find it a very challenging process.
Presumably you want people there who disagree with the idea that Nottingham should be aiming for carbon neutrality for 2028; that think it’s too expensive. Yet you also don’t want to be bogged down in arguments over climate change that might happen if you have people that just don’t consider it as a reality?
I think we will get opposition to the Council’s stance, but if the assembly process is managed well we can have that conversation and reach a consensus. Assemblies of this kind are about local democracy and ensuring there is a diversity of voice and perspective, but also about understanding that consensus means compromise because ultimately you have to move forward and take action.
There’s no doubt that people are losing faith in the political system and that is a challenge and so we’d like this one to be held independently of the political system. Assemblies have the potential to clearly demonstrate what a genuinely representative sample of the citizens want. Also, through the assembly, we might find people who want to become ambassadors and get out into the community to help make things happen and organise projects.
Given the challenge of the target the assembly is going to need to come up with some big ideas?
No community can make genuine progress on carbon neutrality without government investment. No community can do it on their own; they can do it with help. And historically so many government led projects have been piecemeal. One will say you can fund solar panels for home owners but not tenanted houses; another that you can provide insulation for council tenants but not private owners. You need to say we’re going to do the whole of this area, to work to scale which saves money and time.
For instance, Nottingham can’t become carbon neutral without the housing stock becoming much better insulated; there are thousands of homes in the city that don’t have adequate insulation at all. So, you can see how government funding for the kinds of transition that are needed is essential. Of course, there are things that people can do and these things can save people money. This is really important, the idea that you can contribute to cutting emissions and save money at the same time, especially when there is clearly less money around. And unless people are confident that the new technology that is being offered is going to work, and there’s so much negativity about some of this at the moment, then people will stick with their old boilers and cars.
There is funding coming and it will make a difference; an assembly can help push this because politicians want to know where public opinion is heading. If we had climate assemblies all over the country, where people learnt about the threats we faced locally and globally and discussed the possible solutions, then there could be a significant amount of pressure put on politicians to make something happen.
In the meantime, the mini-assemblies are going well and we have a lot of organisations that want us to run one: the Nottinghamshire Trades Council; Age Friendly, Nottingham; Nottingham Women’s Centre; It’s In Nottingham, with the business community. It’s something that is gaining traction and we’re seeing more and more people getting involved.
So, if anyone is interested in helping out, in learning more, or in hosting a mini-assembly what should they do?
You should go onto the Nottingham Climate Assembly website where there is a contact page for you to get in touch. Anyone that has a work place or a community group is welcome to host a mini-assembly with our support. It only needs to last a couple of hours, even less if you’re really short of time. It’s a gentle way into the debate around climate change and is a space for people to give their views, which is really important. And of course you can always make a donation towards the full assembly!
If you want to find out more about Nottingham’s aim to be carbon neutral then you can find that here.
In 2022 a Nottingham Youth Climate Assembly was held in partnership with the University of Nottingham. You can read more about that here and read the manifesto that came out of the discussions here.